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	<title>Comments on: Sometimes It&#8217;s More Than Just A Rut That You Are Stuck In</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/</link>
	<description>the webcomics blog about webcomics</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; From Zero To Sittin&#8217; On A Mountain With Joey Manley In Three Months, or, The Opposite Of A Review</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-6963</link>
		<dc:creator>Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; From Zero To Sittin&#8217; On A Mountain With Joey Manley In Three Months, or, The Opposite Of A Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 21:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-6963</guid>
		<description>[...] I cite the Porkwrench [sic] review by Jeff Lowery. Porkwrench [sic] got a HUGE boost of many thousands of visitors from you, for a week. Your full review did not translate into readership for porkwrench [sic] that I could tell. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I cite the Porkwrench [sic] review by Jeff Lowery. Porkwrench [sic] got a HUGE boost of many thousands of visitors from you, for a week. Your full review did not translate into readership for porkwrench [sic] that I could tell. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A murder of crows &#187; Blog Archive &#187; An Open Letter to Fleen - Pillow Fight Club</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-1110</link>
		<dc:creator>A murder of crows &#187; Blog Archive &#187; An Open Letter to Fleen - Pillow Fight Club</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-1110</guid>
		<description>[...] For argument sake, lets say I am trying goad you to mention me, or my comic. I cite the Porkwrench review that Jeff Lowery thought could be better. It got a HUGE boost of many thousands of visitors from you, for a week. Your full review did not translate into readership that I could tell. I ask you, where will I be the following week after your trashing review of my comic? You and I both know, I will still be a D-List persona. You, being the more recognized between us, must put up, or shut up. You have forgotten the first rule of Pillow Fight Club. That is what you don't understand about comics. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For argument sake, lets say I am trying goad you to mention me, or my comic. I cite the Porkwrench review that Jeff Lowery thought could be better. It got a HUGE boost of many thousands of visitors from you, for a week. Your full review did not translate into readership that I could tell. I ask you, where will I be the following week after your trashing review of my comic? You and I both know, I will still be a D-List persona. You, being the more recognized between us, must put up, or shut up. You have forgotten the first rule of Pillow Fight Club. That is what you don&#8217;t understand about comics. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-645</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-645</guid>
		<description>(Last one today, I promise.)

Oh, and technically reviews do constitute criticism. Which other folks have already mentioned. That doesn't mean that Jeff's trying to do critical work, per se. He's not doing literary analysis or interpretation most days, and he may not be interested in anyone following up on what he says.

But, reviews do fall into the critic's purview, and as a result get sucked into the discourse along with all the rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Last one today, I promise.)</p>
<p>Oh, and technically reviews do constitute criticism. Which other folks have already mentioned. That doesn&#8217;t mean that Jeff&#8217;s trying to do critical work, per se. He&#8217;s not doing literary analysis or interpretation most days, and he may not be interested in anyone following up on what he says.</p>
<p>But, reviews do fall into the critic&#8217;s purview, and as a result get sucked into the discourse along with all the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-644</guid>
		<description>Jeff -- believe it or not, I know how you feel. And I understand the frustration with producing something every day and trying to make it... well, not suck.

I did the "every day, rain or shine" thing on 'Snark for something like three hundred consecutive days.

Looking back, I'm thinking I'd have done myself and my readers alike more good if I'd taken some days off.

I respect what you're trying to do -- but if you find yourself pushing the limits of quality this early on in an effort to produce quantity... you may want to rethink the mission.

Remember, you're running a marathon, not a dash. Pacing is a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8212; believe it or not, I know how you feel. And I understand the frustration with producing something every day and trying to make it&#8230; well, not suck.</p>
<p>I did the &#8220;every day, rain or shine&#8221; thing on &#8216;Snark for something like three hundred consecutive days.</p>
<p>Looking back, I&#8217;m thinking I&#8217;d have done myself and my readers alike more good if I&#8217;d taken some days off.</p>
<p>I respect what you&#8217;re trying to do &#8212; but if you find yourself pushing the limits of quality this early on in an effort to produce quantity&#8230; you may want to rethink the mission.</p>
<p>Remember, you&#8217;re running a marathon, not a dash. Pacing is a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-643</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-643</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; Eric Burns made a comment on the Webcomics Examiner recently that webcomics were all about authorial intent (to the chagrin of the post-structuralists among us). &lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, Eric sodding well did not. ;)

Eric made a statement that though he &lt;em&gt;disdains&lt;/em&gt; the concept of Authorial Intent, there was no other lens to look at &lt;em&gt;Experimental&lt;/em&gt; webcomics through much of the time, because Authorial Intent is the medium being worked in.

Eric is a New Critic, and thinks Authorial Intent and six-ninty-five will buy an overpriced cup of coffee, but that literary interpretation doesn't need to even let it in the room if it doesn't want to, so long as the interpretation is supportable by the text.

For the record.

(Also, the death of Authorial Intent is Modernist, two revolutions or so before Post-Structuralism. Also for the record. ;) )

(Man, Jeff's got to hate these asides.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> Eric Burns made a comment on the Webcomics Examiner recently that webcomics were all about authorial intent (to the chagrin of the post-structuralists among us). </p></blockquote>
<p>No, Eric sodding well did not. <img src='http://www.fleen.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Eric made a statement that though he <em>disdains</em> the concept of Authorial Intent, there was no other lens to look at <em>Experimental</em> webcomics through much of the time, because Authorial Intent is the medium being worked in.</p>
<p>Eric is a New Critic, and thinks Authorial Intent and six-ninty-five will buy an overpriced cup of coffee, but that literary interpretation doesn&#8217;t need to even let it in the room if it doesn&#8217;t want to, so long as the interpretation is supportable by the text.</p>
<p>For the record.</p>
<p>(Also, the death of Authorial Intent is Modernist, two revolutions or so before Post-Structuralism. Also for the record. <img src='http://www.fleen.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>(Man, Jeff&#8217;s got to hate these asides.)</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Carter</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-624</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 21:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-624</guid>
		<description>Judging from the number of comments to this post I'd say people succeeded in filling in the blanks you had when trying to find something constructive to say. I have no problem with the post as it was written, but maybe a "what do you folks think?" would be nice when you hit a blank like that. Or is that implied in a blog situation like this?

I think commenting on as many webcomics as possible, good or bad, is helpful. And some posts are going to be short. And not always "nice". Aren't you supposed to say what you think? Personally, I like having completely different styles of writing available. Short, with a "here's what I think" and   a "move along", is just fine by me.

Just like with movie reviews if I read a few by the same author I can usually guess whether I'll like the movie or not. And it has nothing to do with whether they like it or not. Just a thumbs up or thumbs down is enough most of the time. 

Plus, I'm busy. Capsule reviews are a Good Thing(tm). Less can be more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judging from the number of comments to this post I&#8217;d say people succeeded in filling in the blanks you had when trying to find something constructive to say. I have no problem with the post as it was written, but maybe a &#8220;what do you folks think?&#8221; would be nice when you hit a blank like that. Or is that implied in a blog situation like this?</p>
<p>I think commenting on as many webcomics as possible, good or bad, is helpful. And some posts are going to be short. And not always &#8220;nice&#8221;. Aren&#8217;t you supposed to say what you think? Personally, I like having completely different styles of writing available. Short, with a &#8220;here&#8217;s what I think&#8221; and   a &#8220;move along&#8221;, is just fine by me.</p>
<p>Just like with movie reviews if I read a few by the same author I can usually guess whether I&#8217;ll like the movie or not. And it has nothing to do with whether they like it or not. Just a thumbs up or thumbs down is enough most of the time. </p>
<p>Plus, I&#8217;m busy. Capsule reviews are a Good Thing(tm). Less can be more.</p>
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		<title>By: Sylvan Migdal</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-616</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvan Migdal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 13:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-616</guid>
		<description>I have to pop up and defend Jeff's post on a couple points:

1. "Ad hominem". This post is not an ad hominem attack. It's not a "bitch-slap". Whatever your opinion of the review, it's clearly slamming the comic itself, not the author.

2. "Constructive criticism". This post is a review. Constructive criticism is an entirely different phenomenon which is intended specifically for the artist's ears. A reviewer has absolutely no obligation to offer advice to creators.

As a general rule, I don't give people constructive criticism unless they specifically ask for it. Reviewing their work for the benefit of others, however, is fair game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to pop up and defend Jeff&#8217;s post on a couple points:</p>
<p>1. &#8220;Ad hominem&#8221;. This post is not an ad hominem attack. It&#8217;s not a &#8220;bitch-slap&#8221;. Whatever your opinion of the review, it&#8217;s clearly slamming the comic itself, not the author.</p>
<p>2. &#8220;Constructive criticism&#8221;. This post is a review. Constructive criticism is an entirely different phenomenon which is intended specifically for the artist&#8217;s ears. A reviewer has absolutely no obligation to offer advice to creators.</p>
<p>As a general rule, I don&#8217;t give people constructive criticism unless they specifically ask for it. Reviewing their work for the benefit of others, however, is fair game.</p>
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		<title>By: Monkey Law Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Apples to apples</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-594</link>
		<dc:creator>Monkey Law Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Apples to apples</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 21:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-594</guid>
		<description>[...] I was reading this thread on Fleen today, and one poster made a pretty good point regarding comparing webcomics at an earlier state of gestation with powerhouses like Penny Arcade&#8230;. Should that be that a strip just starting be held to the same standards as Penny Arcade now, or Penny Arcade when it was just starting? Cos there’s a bit of difference between the then and now (as there is for a whole heap of webcomics currently sitting at the top of the pile after many many years of trying to get it right). Gotta start somewhere. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I was reading this thread on Fleen today, and one poster made a pretty good point regarding comparing webcomics at an earlier state of gestation with powerhouses like Penny Arcade&#8230;. Should that be that a strip just starting be held to the same standards as Penny Arcade now, or Penny Arcade when it was just starting? Cos there’s a bit of difference between the then and now (as there is for a whole heap of webcomics currently sitting at the top of the pile after many many years of trying to get it right). Gotta start somewhere. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-593</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 21:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-593</guid>
		<description>Good point, Stephen. I wouldn't compare my own strip as it stands now to Penny Arcade today, but who knows how it stands up to PA's 214th strip... hmm....

Does anyone know which strip was Penny Arcade's 214th? :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Stephen. I wouldn&#8217;t compare my own strip as it stands now to Penny Arcade today, but who knows how it stands up to PA&#8217;s 214th strip&#8230; hmm&#8230;.</p>
<p>Does anyone know which strip was Penny Arcade&#8217;s 214th? <img src='http://www.fleen.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Crowley</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/02/07/sometimes-its-more-than-just-a-rut/#comment-592</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Crowley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 21:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=133#comment-592</guid>
		<description>Should that be that a strip just starting be held to the same standards as Penny Arcade now, or Penny Arcade when it was just starting? Cos there's a bit of difference between the then and now (as there is for a whole heap of webcomics currently sitting at the top of the pile after many many years of trying to get it right). Gotta start somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should that be that a strip just starting be held to the same standards as Penny Arcade now, or Penny Arcade when it was just starting? Cos there&#8217;s a bit of difference between the then and now (as there is for a whole heap of webcomics currently sitting at the top of the pile after many many years of trying to get it right). Gotta start somewhere.</p>
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