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	<title>Comments on: Getting Ready To Rumble</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/</link>
	<description>the webcomics blog about webcomics</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Fleen Book Corner: THOW</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-7475</link>
		<dc:creator>Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Fleen Book Corner: THOW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-7475</guid>
		<description>[...] Books, Gary   Editor&#8217;s note: Hoo boy, could this one devolve quickly. I&#8217;ve spent a month now very carefully reading and re-reading, very carefully making and cross-checking notes, very carefully writing what you&#8217;re about to read. As we discuss the book, please bear in mind that we&#8217;re not going to argue opinion on this one; whether or not Campbell is correct is for others to fight over. We will be looking at only whether or not Campbell has effectively made and advanced his points. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Books, Gary   Editor&#8217;s note: Hoo boy, could this one devolve quickly. I&#8217;ve spent a month now very carefully reading and re-reading, very carefully making and cross-checking notes, very carefully writing what you&#8217;re about to read. As we discuss the book, please bear in mind that we&#8217;re not going to argue opinion on this one; whether or not Campbell is correct is for others to fight over. We will be looking at only whether or not Campbell has effectively made and advanced his points. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Because Stirring Up Shitstorms Is Fun</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-6959</link>
		<dc:creator>Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Because Stirring Up Shitstorms Is Fun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 21:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-6959</guid>
		<description>[...] But first, with a apologies to whichever lit-crit school it is that declares authorial intent irrelevant (I never learned those things; I went to nerd school), I draw your attention to today&#8217;s Starslip Crisis. Clearly, Kristofer Straub is taking the opportunity to kick T Campbell while he&#8217;s hurting and should be enjoying himself. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But first, with a apologies to whichever lit-crit school it is that declares authorial intent irrelevant (I never learned those things; I went to nerd school), I draw your attention to today&#8217;s Starslip Crisis. Clearly, Kristofer Straub is taking the opportunity to kick T Campbell while he&#8217;s hurting and should be enjoying himself. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Back From The Internetless Wastes</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-5457</link>
		<dc:creator>Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Back From The Internetless Wastes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-5457</guid>
		<description>[...] Gary   &#8230; and tired as hell. Which is probably why, in the context of this, I find this far funnier than I should. After all, we here at Fleen are all about webcomics community, and not interested in provoking shitstorms or internet fights to the bloody death. That being said, Bunny is owning all over those birds (start here and keep clicking on &#8220;next&#8221;, through the ten updates that Lem managed in one day). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gary   &#8230; and tired as hell. Which is probably why, in the context of this, I find this far funnier than I should. After all, we here at Fleen are all about webcomics community, and not interested in provoking shitstorms or internet fights to the bloody death. That being said, Bunny is owning all over those birds (start here and keep clicking on &#8220;next&#8221;, through the ten updates that Lem managed in one day). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Fleen Book Corner: CL</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-3672</link>
		<dc:creator>Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Fleen Book Corner: CL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 May 2006 21:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-3672</guid>
		<description>[...] Uncategorized   So the fine men and women of the United States Postal Service finally got me my copy of Howard Tayler&#8217;s first Schlock Mercenary book today (postmarked the 15th, I swear they were faster when they sponsored Lance), so look for a review in the coming days. Also, if rumors are to be believed, the long-awaited and completely non-controversial The History of Webcomics may be dropping in the next day or so; that one will probably take a bit longer. And today, it&#8217;s City Limits, the latest webcomics-artists-anthology, this one edited by George Rohac and Katy Ullman. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Uncategorized   So the fine men and women of the United States Postal Service finally got me my copy of Howard Tayler&#8217;s first Schlock Mercenary book today (postmarked the 15th, I swear they were faster when they sponsored Lance), so look for a review in the coming days. Also, if rumors are to be believed, the long-awaited and completely non-controversial The History of Webcomics may be dropping in the next day or so; that one will probably take a bit longer. And today, it&#8217;s City Limits, the latest webcomics-artists-anthology, this one edited by George Rohac and Katy Ullman. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: La Casa Comics &#187; Archive &#187; 055: Guest Week #3 by Tim Bard</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-1122</link>
		<dc:creator>La Casa Comics &#187; Archive &#187; 055: Guest Week #3 by Tim Bard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-1122</guid>
		<description>[...] [p.p.s]Gary from Fleen.com chimes in about the History of Webcomics book, and mostly about Kurtz&#8217;s response to it. I&#8217;m not particularly fond of Fleen, and this post, in particular, doesn&#8217;t really offer much. So why did I link it? I guess I just like to share. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [p.p.s]Gary from Fleen.com chimes in about the History of Webcomics book, and mostly about Kurtz&#8217;s response to it. I&#8217;m not particularly fond of Fleen, and this post, in particular, doesn&#8217;t really offer much. So why did I link it? I guess I just like to share. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: La Casa Comics &#187; Archive &#187; 055: My History of Webcomics</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-1073</link>
		<dc:creator>La Casa Comics &#187; Archive &#187; 055: My History of Webcomics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-1073</guid>
		<description>[...] [p.p.s]Gary from Fleen.com chimes in about the History of Webcomics book, and mostly about Kurtz&#8217;s response to it. I&#8217;m not particularly fond of Fleen, and this post, in particular, doesn&#8217;t really offer much. So why did I link it? I guess I just like to share. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [p.p.s]Gary from Fleen.com chimes in about the History of Webcomics book, and mostly about Kurtz&#8217;s response to it. I&#8217;m not particularly fond of Fleen, and this post, in particular, doesn&#8217;t really offer much. So why did I link it? I guess I just like to share. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: L Rickelman</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-1032</link>
		<dc:creator>L Rickelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-1032</guid>
		<description>Good grief.

I usually stay far away from threads.  It's aggravating when my favorite authors are slandered, and even more so when my favorite authors leave their literary talent at the door and start arguing like five-year-olds.

I'm nobody.  I haven't written a webcomic.  I am just a fan.  That said, I was excited when I stumbled across the news of Campbell's book.  Sounds interesting!  About time someone wrote a book about it!

Will it be accurate or compelling or just?  I certainly won't know until I read it!  My only point is... I will read it.  And if I find parts of it lacking, I probably won't label them "self-masturbatory."

Now, it's a damn shame that authors and the people who write about them always have to fight.  Remember, histories are NECESSARILY subjective.  Which is why any public library will hold many, many, many history books written by many, many, many different people.

I hope that Campbell's book is followed by many others.  I applaud him for taking this risk.  Every other history written after this will critique him because he is the first.  Webcomics are worth writing about.  Attempting to judge their influence is a worthwhile discussion.  I'm glad that someone is willing to take the discussion out of the bastardized syntax of the forums and into publication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good grief.</p>
<p>I usually stay far away from threads.  It&#8217;s aggravating when my favorite authors are slandered, and even more so when my favorite authors leave their literary talent at the door and start arguing like five-year-olds.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m nobody.  I haven&#8217;t written a webcomic.  I am just a fan.  That said, I was excited when I stumbled across the news of Campbell&#8217;s book.  Sounds interesting!  About time someone wrote a book about it!</p>
<p>Will it be accurate or compelling or just?  I certainly won&#8217;t know until I read it!  My only point is&#8230; I will read it.  And if I find parts of it lacking, I probably won&#8217;t label them &#8220;self-masturbatory.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now, it&#8217;s a damn shame that authors and the people who write about them always have to fight.  Remember, histories are NECESSARILY subjective.  Which is why any public library will hold many, many, many history books written by many, many, many different people.</p>
<p>I hope that Campbell&#8217;s book is followed by many others.  I applaud him for taking this risk.  Every other history written after this will critique him because he is the first.  Webcomics are worth writing about.  Attempting to judge their influence is a worthwhile discussion.  I&#8217;m glad that someone is willing to take the discussion out of the bastardized syntax of the forums and into publication.</p>
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		<title>By: T Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-961</link>
		<dc:creator>T Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-961</guid>
		<description>It's worth adding that Jon and I have settled our important differences offline since the fiery exchange above. Far as I'm concerned, all's well that ends well there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s worth adding that Jon and I have settled our important differences offline since the fiery exchange above. Far as I&#8217;m concerned, all&#8217;s well that ends well there.</p>
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		<title>By: rob why</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-946</link>
		<dc:creator>rob why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-946</guid>
		<description>â€œPublishing the history of something that isnâ€™t even a decade old?â€?

Given its transience and stunning evolution, a year on the web is like ten in â€œreal life.â€? I guarantee there have been similar overviews of other web-related niches in the same state of adolescence, as well as books attempting to summarize the entire history of the internet.

T wrote:

â€œBut I still place more value on thirteen yearsâ€™ worth of records than a relatively short span of timeâ€™s worth of interviews.â€?

Not only reasonable but I would say preferable. People have selective memories and itâ€™s a totally valid means of piecing together a story and/or a history. After all when 60 Minutes says â€œJoe Blow would not respond to our requests for an interviewâ€? it doesnâ€™t mean they kill the story.  They simply look at what he said prior and what was said about him by other journalists.
Of course the snipes say that T should have interviewed both Caston and Gallagher and then hit them with any inconsistencies in their current memories based on what they have said prior. Thatâ€™s assuming there would be any inconsistency and/or subterfuge; highly unlikely since both menâ€™s accounts still stand on the web. Regardless if T had done this Iâ€™d bet the very same roving band of critics would have faulted him for this method as well.

All this ridiculous carping and blatant jockeying for position. Iâ€™m one of the Horseman, no I am. I was doing web comics before the web even existed. Well my first web comic was drawn on a crypt wall in Luxor.
This book was going to be written eventually, and most likely by some hack freelancer with absolutely no connection to web comics. Not unlike a Christopher Hart art instructional of Manga. (and lookout for Heidi MacDonaldâ€™s â€œThe Wow of Webcomicsâ€?).Therefore youâ€™d think the cantankerous web comics â€œcommunityâ€? would be happy  that T got there first. Is the book any good? I have no idea. But does the guy who wrote it exhibit a genuine passion and understanding for comics, both of the print and pixilated variety? Unquestionably yes. Thus far it seems that Tâ€™s greatest failing is that heâ€™s not as big of a dickhead as seemingly everyone else in webcomics (obviously no one is Kurtzâ€™ match in this regard), and thus he seems anxious and willing to try to please all the people all the time. Even the transparently jealous snipes who wish theyâ€™d written the book instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>â€œPublishing the history of something that isnâ€™t even a decade old?â€?</p>
<p>Given its transience and stunning evolution, a year on the web is like ten in â€œreal life.â€? I guarantee there have been similar overviews of other web-related niches in the same state of adolescence, as well as books attempting to summarize the entire history of the internet.</p>
<p>T wrote:</p>
<p>â€œBut I still place more value on thirteen yearsâ€™ worth of records than a relatively short span of timeâ€™s worth of interviews.â€?</p>
<p>Not only reasonable but I would say preferable. People have selective memories and itâ€™s a totally valid means of piecing together a story and/or a history. After all when 60 Minutes says â€œJoe Blow would not respond to our requests for an interviewâ€? it doesnâ€™t mean they kill the story.  They simply look at what he said prior and what was said about him by other journalists.<br />
Of course the snipes say that T should have interviewed both Caston and Gallagher and then hit them with any inconsistencies in their current memories based on what they have said prior. Thatâ€™s assuming there would be any inconsistency and/or subterfuge; highly unlikely since both menâ€™s accounts still stand on the web. Regardless if T had done this Iâ€™d bet the very same roving band of critics would have faulted him for this method as well.</p>
<p>All this ridiculous carping and blatant jockeying for position. Iâ€™m one of the Horseman, no I am. I was doing web comics before the web even existed. Well my first web comic was drawn on a crypt wall in Luxor.<br />
This book was going to be written eventually, and most likely by some hack freelancer with absolutely no connection to web comics. Not unlike a Christopher Hart art instructional of Manga. (and lookout for Heidi MacDonaldâ€™s â€œThe Wow of Webcomicsâ€?).Therefore youâ€™d think the cantankerous web comics â€œcommunityâ€? would be happy  that T got there first. Is the book any good? I have no idea. But does the guy who wrote it exhibit a genuine passion and understanding for comics, both of the print and pixilated variety? Unquestionably yes. Thus far it seems that Tâ€™s greatest failing is that heâ€™s not as big of a dickhead as seemingly everyone else in webcomics (obviously no one is Kurtzâ€™ match in this regard), and thus he seems anxious and willing to try to please all the people all the time. Even the transparently jealous snipes who wish theyâ€™d written the book instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Kahn</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/03/02/166/#comment-929</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Kahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 20:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/?p=166#comment-929</guid>
		<description>Tangent's lips must be pretty huge if he's able to plant them so firmly on so many asses at once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tangent&#8217;s lips must be pretty huge if he&#8217;s able to plant them so firmly on so many asses at once.</p>
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