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	<title>Comments on: Community/Center</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/</link>
	<description>the webcomics blog about webcomics</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Word Of Mouth</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-12252</link>
		<dc:creator>Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Word Of Mouth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-12252</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s the issue that Johnson thinks it is (although there are differing views on what the &#8216;webcomics community&#8217; actually is), but just in case Shishio tells us: I agree that webcomic creators need to work harder to make webcomics as a whole more successful. And so I have launched The Webcomic Word of Mouth Project, the idea of which is to get webcomic creators to pledge to link to other webcomics they like which will hopefully increase everybody&#8217;s readers. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s the issue that Johnson thinks it is (although there are differing views on what the &#8216;webcomics community&#8217; actually is), but just in case Shishio tells us: I agree that webcomic creators need to work harder to make webcomics as a whole more successful. And so I have launched The Webcomic Word of Mouth Project, the idea of which is to get webcomic creators to pledge to link to other webcomics they like which will hopefully increase everybody&#8217;s readers. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Back From The Internetless Wastes</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-5453</link>
		<dc:creator>Fleen: Written by bitter, haggard wordbeasts &#187; Back From The Internetless Wastes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-5453</guid>
		<description>[...] Gary   &#8230; and tired as hell. Which is probably why, in the context of this, I find this far funnier than I should. After all, we here at Fleen are all about webcomics community, and not interested in provoking shitstorms or internet fights to the bloody death. That being said, Bunny is owning all over those birds (start here and keep clicking on &#8220;next&#8221;, through the ten updates that Lem managed in one day). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gary   &#8230; and tired as hell. Which is probably why, in the context of this, I find this far funnier than I should. After all, we here at Fleen are all about webcomics community, and not interested in provoking shitstorms or internet fights to the bloody death. That being said, Bunny is owning all over those birds (start here and keep clicking on &#8220;next&#8221;, through the ten updates that Lem managed in one day). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2303</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Tyrrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 13:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2303</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Iâ€™m a bit baffled by your link to a description of the French Academy. Nowhere does the article suggest our imply that such an institution should be set up in the realm of webcomics.

Never said that it did. I said that the task facing those of &lt;strong&gt;us&lt;/strong&gt; who love webcomics is to avoid falling into that mindset (new emphasis). That includes you, me, and everybody else that loves these crazy things. 

Where creators are doing good work, we ought to try to make sure that people are aware of it. When people aren't ready for prime time, we ought to provide constructive feedback. 

We shouldn't declare that certain topics, styles, or implementations are, on their face, unworthy. As we both know, some people in the ongoing dialogue about [web]comics have a tendency in that direction (and a general Us/Them mindset), and anybody with broadband and strong opinions (me, for example) has the potential to fall into that trap. And if I fall into that trap, I hope you'll call me on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>Iâ€™m a bit baffled by your link to a description of the French Academy. Nowhere does the article suggest our imply that such an institution should be set up in the realm of webcomics.</p>
<p>Never said that it did. I said that the task facing those of <strong>us</strong> who love webcomics is to avoid falling into that mindset (new emphasis). That includes you, me, and everybody else that loves these crazy things. </p>
<p>Where creators are doing good work, we ought to try to make sure that people are aware of it. When people aren&#8217;t ready for prime time, we ought to provide constructive feedback. </p>
<p>We shouldn&#8217;t declare that certain topics, styles, or implementations are, on their face, unworthy. As we both know, some people in the ongoing dialogue about [web]comics have a tendency in that direction (and a general Us/Them mindset), and anybody with broadband and strong opinions (me, for example) has the potential to fall into that trap. And if I fall into that trap, I hope you&#8217;ll call me on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Zabel</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2301</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Zabel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 13:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2301</guid>
		<description>Depending on how you define it, that little group represented a wide range of experiences; but it wasn't intended as a scientific opinion poll by any means.  

FYI, Eric Burns was buddies with one of the earliest webcomics pioneers, and even appeared in his friend's strip.  See http://webcomicsreview.com/?p=104
for details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depending on how you define it, that little group represented a wide range of experiences; but it wasn&#8217;t intended as a scientific opinion poll by any means.  </p>
<p>FYI, Eric Burns was buddies with one of the earliest webcomics pioneers, and even appeared in his friend&#8217;s strip.  See <a href="http://webcomicsreview.com/?p=104" rel="nofollow">http://webcomicsreview.com/?p=104</a><br />
for details.</p>
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		<title>By: bup</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2293</link>
		<dc:creator>bup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 12:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2293</guid>
		<description>&#62;&#62;Yeah, I was aware of the irony when I asked a bunch of old-timers about the role of old-timers in this â€œwebcomics communityâ€? I was going on about.

I don't think it was that you were old-timers that Gary found ironic (or at least, not solely). I don't think Eric Burns is an old-timer. I think it was that it was such an insular group. There are old-timers much further afield than you chose to speak to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;Yeah, I was aware of the irony when I asked a bunch of old-timers about the role of old-timers in this â€œwebcomics communityâ€? I was going on about.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it was that you were old-timers that Gary found ironic (or at least, not solely). I don&#8217;t think Eric Burns is an old-timer. I think it was that it was such an insular group. There are old-timers much further afield than you chose to speak to.</p>
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		<title>By: T Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2256</link>
		<dc:creator>T Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 05:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2256</guid>
		<description>Perhaps "the center" never did really exist, but the marketplace from about 2000-2003 or so made it a lot easier to pretend it did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps &#8220;the center&#8221; never did really exist, but the marketplace from about 2000-2003 or so made it a lot easier to pretend it did.</p>
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		<title>By: T Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2252</link>
		<dc:creator>T Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 05:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2252</guid>
		<description>With respect, Gary, I don't think the essay's points are stultifyingly obvious to everyone. I see a number of people at Keenspot and Modern Tales behaving-- at least on the surface-- as if nothing had changed about webcomics since about 2002.

I look back and see myself lapsing into that mode of thinking, too. The let's-all-work-together! initiatives I pushed last year, like the call for OhNoRobot subscriptions and the early calls for History feedback, were written for a tighter-knit community than what we've become. I see the changes now, but others may need help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect, Gary, I don&#8217;t think the essay&#8217;s points are stultifyingly obvious to everyone. I see a number of people at Keenspot and Modern Tales behaving&#8211; at least on the surface&#8211; as if nothing had changed about webcomics since about 2002.</p>
<p>I look back and see myself lapsing into that mode of thinking, too. The let&#8217;s-all-work-together! initiatives I pushed last year, like the call for OhNoRobot subscriptions and the early calls for History feedback, were written for a tighter-knit community than what we&#8217;ve become. I see the changes now, but others may need help.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Ditzler</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2223</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Ditzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 02:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2223</guid>
		<description>This is really interesting, because before I got my gig here, I was very much on the perifery. I would read comics, even popular ones, but I didn't participate in forums or any other fan aparatus. I was one of the perpetual lurkers, and saw the comment that you were looking for writers on Overcompensating and took a chance. 

So, if the center includes bloggers who focus on the medium, I'm not all that entrenched... as of yet. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is really interesting, because before I got my gig here, I was very much on the perifery. I would read comics, even popular ones, but I didn&#8217;t participate in forums or any other fan aparatus. I was one of the perpetual lurkers, and saw the comment that you were looking for writers on Overcompensating and took a chance. </p>
<p>So, if the center includes bloggers who focus on the medium, I&#8217;m not all that entrenched&#8230; as of yet. <img src='http://www.fleen.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Joe Zabel</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2221</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Zabel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 00:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2221</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments, Gary.  Yeah, I was aware of the irony when I asked a bunch of old-timers about the role of old-timers in this "webcomics community" I was going on about.  But I still think it was a good idea to ask these particular folks about it.  After all, if you want to get a historical perspective, you have to talk to people who've been around for a while.  

And I don't think their responses were at all defensive or self-congratulatory; for the most part they were saying what the article was saying, that the old center of webcomics (to the extent that such a thing can be defined) is stagnant, a bit hostile, irrelevant and sometimes full of shit.

I'm a bit baffled by your link to a description of the French Academy.  Nowhere does the article suggest our imply that such an institution should be set up in the realm of webcomics.  

BTW, when I was talking about the "center" of webcomics, I merely meant that some websites (like Fleen, for instance), message boards, and individuals are devoted to a general interest in webcomics, rather than an interest in a particular artist or genre.  I certainly don't think that these generalists are more "important" than anybody else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments, Gary.  Yeah, I was aware of the irony when I asked a bunch of old-timers about the role of old-timers in this &#8220;webcomics community&#8221; I was going on about.  But I still think it was a good idea to ask these particular folks about it.  After all, if you want to get a historical perspective, you have to talk to people who&#8217;ve been around for a while.  </p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think their responses were at all defensive or self-congratulatory; for the most part they were saying what the article was saying, that the old center of webcomics (to the extent that such a thing can be defined) is stagnant, a bit hostile, irrelevant and sometimes full of shit.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a bit baffled by your link to a description of the French Academy.  Nowhere does the article suggest our imply that such an institution should be set up in the realm of webcomics.  </p>
<p>BTW, when I was talking about the &#8220;center&#8221; of webcomics, I merely meant that some websites (like Fleen, for instance), message boards, and individuals are devoted to a general interest in webcomics, rather than an interest in a particular artist or genre.  I certainly don&#8217;t think that these generalists are more &#8220;important&#8221; than anybody else.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2211</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 21:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/05/17/communitycenter/#comment-2211</guid>
		<description>It sounds like a load of bullshit to me. Maybe it's just that no one cares what these blowhards have to say anymore, and they're only respected in their little circle jerk of friends, and have made themselves look like buffoons in other communities. You can only suck each other's dicks for so long you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds like a load of bullshit to me. Maybe it&#8217;s just that no one cares what these blowhards have to say anymore, and they&#8217;re only respected in their little circle jerk of friends, and have made themselves look like buffoons in other communities. You can only suck each other&#8217;s dicks for so long you know.</p>
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