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	<title>Comments on: Aw, Man, Not This Crap Again</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/</link>
	<description>the webcomics blog about webcomics</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Respect is not a weakness; compromise is not defeat. &#171; Damn Good Comics</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-140975</link>
		<dc:creator>Respect is not a weakness; compromise is not defeat. &#171; Damn Good Comics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-140975</guid>
		<description>[...] while back, another member of Dumbrella had a similar situation - they had a number of t-shirts that featured various references to Star Wars. Lucas and company [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] while back, another member of Dumbrella had a similar situation - they had a number of t-shirts that featured various references to Star Wars. Lucas and company [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rstevens</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10669</link>
		<dc:creator>rstevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10669</guid>
		<description>"I think instead of sending a cease and desist letter, Lucasfilm should make t-shirts with non-pixelated DS characters, but not mention them by name and then claim to be making parody."

Man, if that was their strategy, I'd be the first to order one. (plus my sales would probably go UP)

I'm beginning to think I'd rather just say, "screw iT" and invest all my hypothetical court time in making a pile of new shirts this month. It's not like I don't have a dozen of them designed and in a queue, just waiting for shelf space in my office.

Special note to Todd: you have great opinions and lots of helpful facts, but you come off sounding really condescending! I understand you're trying to help, but a lot of other people in life might not. That's a lesson I learned the hard way in college.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think instead of sending a cease and desist letter, Lucasfilm should make t-shirts with non-pixelated DS characters, but not mention them by name and then claim to be making parody.&#8221;</p>
<p>Man, if that was their strategy, I&#8217;d be the first to order one. (plus my sales would probably go UP)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m beginning to think I&#8217;d rather just say, &#8220;screw iT&#8221; and invest all my hypothetical court time in making a pile of new shirts this month. It&#8217;s not like I don&#8217;t have a dozen of them designed and in a queue, just waiting for shelf space in my office.</p>
<p>Special note to Todd: you have great opinions and lots of helpful facts, but you come off sounding really condescending! I understand you&#8217;re trying to help, but a lot of other people in life might not. That&#8217;s a lesson I learned the hard way in college.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10660</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10660</guid>
		<description>I think instead of sending a cease and desist letter, Lucasfilm should make t-shirts with non-pixelated DS characters, but not mention them by name and then claim to be making parody.

To add insult to injury, they could refer to a shirt of Indy Rock Pete as "The Space Demon Shirt."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think instead of sending a cease and desist letter, Lucasfilm should make t-shirts with non-pixelated DS characters, but not mention them by name and then claim to be making parody.</p>
<p>To add insult to injury, they could refer to a shirt of Indy Rock Pete as &#8220;The Space Demon Shirt.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Antdevamp</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10604</link>
		<dc:creator>Antdevamp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10604</guid>
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		<title>By: Scarybug</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10600</link>
		<dc:creator>Scarybug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10600</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite="todd"&gt;What you’re doing is pretty harmless, to be sure... But trademark law requires trademark holders to be brutal ogres&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right, so obviously trademark law is the problem, and it needs to be altered so that people are not punished for doing harmless things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="todd"><p>What you’re doing is pretty harmless, to be sure&#8230; But trademark law requires trademark holders to be brutal ogres</p></blockquote>
<p>Right, so obviously trademark law is the problem, and it needs to be altered so that people are not punished for doing harmless things.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10592</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Tyrrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10592</guid>
		<description>We seem to have gotten to the point where we're repeating ourselves. I think that Sam put it best above when he said that his only concern is whether or not the shirts "technically violate copyright law". My reading of the 2 Live Crew case says that they don't, but &lt;em&gt;I'm not a lawyer&lt;/em&gt;. Chances are, neither are you.

So I'm going to ask that unless:

a) You &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; a lawyer (please provide your area of specialization and which bar you are admitted before);
b) You can cite relevant case law (WestLaw or equivalent) 

that you refrain from declaring who is correct in this case. Feel free to discuss the philosophical/artistic implications, but findings of fact are a matter for the professionals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We seem to have gotten to the point where we&#8217;re repeating ourselves. I think that Sam put it best above when he said that his only concern is whether or not the shirts &#8220;technically violate copyright law&#8221;. My reading of the 2 Live Crew case says that they don&#8217;t, but <em>I&#8217;m not a lawyer</em>. Chances are, neither are you.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m going to ask that unless:</p>
<p>a) You <em>are</em> a lawyer (please provide your area of specialization and which bar you are admitted before);<br />
b) You can cite relevant case law (WestLaw or equivalent) </p>
<p>that you refrain from declaring who is correct in this case. Feel free to discuss the philosophical/artistic implications, but findings of fact are a matter for the professionals.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd VerBeek</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10590</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd VerBeek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10590</guid>
		<description>This isn't even a border case.  If you know anything about trademark law, it's obvious he's on the wrong side of it.  Here's a copy of the message I sent to Rich in response to his open request for real-world advice:

Stop insulting people's intelligence.  Claiming that the R2 image is a "trash can" and that the Chewie shirt isn't deliberately designed to look like a Star Wars reference, is going to be about as successful for you as walking into a meeting with them and talking to them very slowly using words of one syllable and patting them on the head like drooling retards, while you smirk and wink at your friends.  Claiming the TIE fighter was supposed to be a Space Invaders image might have worked, except for Exhibits A and B which make it obvious that it's not.  Now, whatever you might think of their ethics and value to society (and you might even be right) most lawyers are not actual retards.  You're not fooling them.  You know that you're riffing on Star Wars, your customers know you're riffing on Star Wars, and Lucasfilms' lawyers know you're riffing on Star Wars.  And so will the judge.  Are you familiar with the term "contempt of court"?  You seem to be soaking in it.

As for the "fair use" defense, you're not even close.  Fair Use under copyright law allows you to quote a sample of a larger work for the purpose of scholarly commentary.  This ain't that.  Under trademark law, it allows you to reproduce others' trademarks for the sake of making a product comparison, and requires you to explicitly acknowledge their trademarks.  You aren't doing that, either.  You're making gag Star Wars t-shirts.  Putting someone else's images on a product in order to sell it for profit is pretty much a cut-and-dried no-no.

What you're doing is pretty harmless, to be sure.  You're not stealing food from the mouths of George Lucas' children or anything.  But trademark law requires trademark holders to be brutal ogres, willing to steal the food from the mouths' of others' children if they find someone infringing those trademarks.  If they don't, the trademarks become invalid, and it'll become difficult for them to go after producers of bootleg merchandise and so forth.  It may not be fair, but it's how the law is written.  And it's still a far cry from being the end of a "free" country; you can still satirize and parody things.  You just have to do it as actual satire and parody, not as gag t-shirts sold for profit.

You had some clever ideas, they were funny, and you ran with them.  Good prank.  Very punk-rock; you have my respect.  But your prank just got caught.  So stop trying to weasel your way out of it by pretending to not be nearly as clever as you obviously are, and insulting the intelligence of the folks who caught you.  You can't win this for the simple reason that you did the prank.  So be a mensch, admit it, and... cease and desist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t even a border case.  If you know anything about trademark law, it&#8217;s obvious he&#8217;s on the wrong side of it.  Here&#8217;s a copy of the message I sent to Rich in response to his open request for real-world advice:</p>
<p>Stop insulting people&#8217;s intelligence.  Claiming that the R2 image is a &#8220;trash can&#8221; and that the Chewie shirt isn&#8217;t deliberately designed to look like a Star Wars reference, is going to be about as successful for you as walking into a meeting with them and talking to them very slowly using words of one syllable and patting them on the head like drooling retards, while you smirk and wink at your friends.  Claiming the TIE fighter was supposed to be a Space Invaders image might have worked, except for Exhibits A and B which make it obvious that it&#8217;s not.  Now, whatever you might think of their ethics and value to society (and you might even be right) most lawyers are not actual retards.  You&#8217;re not fooling them.  You know that you&#8217;re riffing on Star Wars, your customers know you&#8217;re riffing on Star Wars, and Lucasfilms&#8217; lawyers know you&#8217;re riffing on Star Wars.  And so will the judge.  Are you familiar with the term &#8220;contempt of court&#8221;?  You seem to be soaking in it.</p>
<p>As for the &#8220;fair use&#8221; defense, you&#8217;re not even close.  Fair Use under copyright law allows you to quote a sample of a larger work for the purpose of scholarly commentary.  This ain&#8217;t that.  Under trademark law, it allows you to reproduce others&#8217; trademarks for the sake of making a product comparison, and requires you to explicitly acknowledge their trademarks.  You aren&#8217;t doing that, either.  You&#8217;re making gag Star Wars t-shirts.  Putting someone else&#8217;s images on a product in order to sell it for profit is pretty much a cut-and-dried no-no.</p>
<p>What you&#8217;re doing is pretty harmless, to be sure.  You&#8217;re not stealing food from the mouths of George Lucas&#8217; children or anything.  But trademark law requires trademark holders to be brutal ogres, willing to steal the food from the mouths&#8217; of others&#8217; children if they find someone infringing those trademarks.  If they don&#8217;t, the trademarks become invalid, and it&#8217;ll become difficult for them to go after producers of bootleg merchandise and so forth.  It may not be fair, but it&#8217;s how the law is written.  And it&#8217;s still a far cry from being the end of a &#8220;free&#8221; country; you can still satirize and parody things.  You just have to do it as actual satire and parody, not as gag t-shirts sold for profit.</p>
<p>You had some clever ideas, they were funny, and you ran with them.  Good prank.  Very punk-rock; you have my respect.  But your prank just got caught.  So stop trying to weasel your way out of it by pretending to not be nearly as clever as you obviously are, and insulting the intelligence of the folks who caught you.  You can&#8217;t win this for the simple reason that you did the prank.  So be a mensch, admit it, and&#8230; cease and desist.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10587</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10587</guid>
		<description>Man, I love these shirts so much, I ordered another 3-pack (I already own a set) for when the first 3 wear out.  Gonna put 'em in the back of the closet for that fateful day.  Thanks for some great shirts Rich, hope this turns out well!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, I love these shirts so much, I ordered another 3-pack (I already own a set) for when the first 3 wear out.  Gonna put &#8216;em in the back of the closet for that fateful day.  Thanks for some great shirts Rich, hope this turns out well!</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10578</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Tyrrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10578</guid>
		<description>Dirk,

Wouldn't be the first time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk,</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t be the first time.</p>
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		<title>By: Scarybug</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10576</link>
		<dc:creator>Scarybug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2006/10/20/aw-man-not-this-crap-again/#comment-10576</guid>
		<description>It's true that these companies have to denfend their icons from becoming vernacular lest they loose the rights to them. Whatever law causes that is the reason they have to go after people who are probably helping them by keeping up hype for their IP. The conclusion I draw from this situation it that copyright law is broken, and needs to be fixed so that this situation where creators have to attack fans becomes unneccessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true that these companies have to denfend their icons from becoming vernacular lest they loose the rights to them. Whatever law causes that is the reason they have to go after people who are probably helping them by keeping up hype for their IP. The conclusion I draw from this situation it that copyright law is broken, and needs to be fixed so that this situation where creators have to attack fans becomes unneccessary.</p>
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