<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Old McDonald Had A Farm Drift Net Strip Mine Online Talent Search Competition</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/</link>
	<description>the webcomics blog about webcomics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:00:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Sev</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-108141</link>
		<dc:creator>Sev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-108141</guid>
		<description>Speaking of movies, the first Matrix movie copied quite heavily from the Invisibles. And I&#039;m quite sure we&#039;ll be seeing more and more films based on vertigo-comics, seeing as the number of comic book-inspirated movies is steadily increasing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of movies, the first Matrix movie copied quite heavily from the Invisibles. And I&#8217;m quite sure we&#8217;ll be seeing more and more films based on vertigo-comics, seeing as the number of comic book-inspirated movies is steadily increasing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; July 11, 2007: Thirty nine</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104881</link>
		<dc:creator>Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; July 11, 2007: Thirty nine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104881</guid>
		<description>[...] More commentary on DC&#8217;s Zuda initiative from Dave Kellett (scroll down to the blog section) and Gary Tyrrell. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More commentary on DC&#8217;s Zuda initiative from Dave Kellett (scroll down to the blog section) and Gary Tyrrell. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DJ Coffman</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104862</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Coffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104862</guid>
		<description>All it takes is one big hit like that, son in essence, it&#039;s been said over and over-- even in the Miller/Eisner conversation book that &quot;Comic Books&quot; are just REALLY cheap &quot;research and development&quot; for Hollywood and big companies like Warner, etc.

The thing to think about is, if you want to wake up one day and say ... this is what I want to do for a living, and you get the freelancer mindset-- that &quot;cheap research and development&quot; could end up being a very decent living for an illustrator. 

Get yourself some royalties or bonuses, shared rights, and you&#039;re made in the shade if your lucky ticket wins the lottery. But don&#039;t bank on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All it takes is one big hit like that, son in essence, it&#8217;s been said over and over&#8211; even in the Miller/Eisner conversation book that &#8220;Comic Books&#8221; are just REALLY cheap &#8220;research and development&#8221; for Hollywood and big companies like Warner, etc.</p>
<p>The thing to think about is, if you want to wake up one day and say &#8230; this is what I want to do for a living, and you get the freelancer mindset&#8211; that &#8220;cheap research and development&#8221; could end up being a very decent living for an illustrator. </p>
<p>Get yourself some royalties or bonuses, shared rights, and you&#8217;re made in the shade if your lucky ticket wins the lottery. But don&#8217;t bank on it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Crosby</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104778</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Crosby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104778</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;NAPOLEON SOLO&quot;&gt;DC does publish a lot of creator-owned books, mostly through its Vertigo imprint.... but then this doesnâ€™t seem to have netted them a multi-movie-size hit yet.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Keanu Reeves-starring film CONSTANTINE (based on the DC/Vertigo comic HELLBLAZER) made $230 million at the box office.  Reeves has expressed interest in doing a sequel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="NAPOLEON SOLO"><p>DC does publish a lot of creator-owned books, mostly through its Vertigo imprint&#8230;. but then this doesnâ€™t seem to have netted them a multi-movie-size hit yet.</p></blockquote>
<p>The Keanu Reeves-starring film CONSTANTINE (based on the DC/Vertigo comic HELLBLAZER) made $230 million at the box office.  Reeves has expressed interest in doing a sequel.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Napoleon Solo</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104739</link>
		<dc:creator>Napoleon Solo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104739</guid>
		<description>DC does publish a lot of creator-owned books, mostly through its Vertigo imprint. Plus there&#039;s already an easy enough submission process for this. But then this doesn&#039;t seem to have netted them a multi-movie-size hit yet. This makes me doubt that any contract DC (or their owners, AOLTimeWarner) are giving out in a competition will offer better creators&#039; rights than a regular DC submission contract. Most likely it will be very similar to Platinum Studio&#039;s contract. If this is incorrect, I will eat my hat (said hat is made out of ham).

And I agree with T that Gary&#039;s attempts to define a Aquaman-size hit dilute his point. I can name a number of franchises that are huge now and will probably outlive us all. I&#039;ll start with Alien, as in the Giger creation, (movies, comics, novels, video games, toys), Transformers (toys, cartoons, movies) and Garfield (comics, toys, movies, video games).

But fantastic article none-the-less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DC does publish a lot of creator-owned books, mostly through its Vertigo imprint. Plus there&#8217;s already an easy enough submission process for this. But then this doesn&#8217;t seem to have netted them a multi-movie-size hit yet. This makes me doubt that any contract DC (or their owners, AOLTimeWarner) are giving out in a competition will offer better creators&#8217; rights than a regular DC submission contract. Most likely it will be very similar to Platinum Studio&#8217;s contract. If this is incorrect, I will eat my hat (said hat is made out of ham).</p>
<p>And I agree with T that Gary&#8217;s attempts to define a Aquaman-size hit dilute his point. I can name a number of franchises that are huge now and will probably outlive us all. I&#8217;ll start with Alien, as in the Giger creation, (movies, comics, novels, video games, toys), Transformers (toys, cartoons, movies) and Garfield (comics, toys, movies, video games).</p>
<p>But fantastic article none-the-less.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104661</link>
		<dc:creator>T Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104661</guid>
		<description>There are reasons to be &quot;wait and see&quot; about the compensation. Unlike Platinum or Tokyopop, Zuda doesn&#039;t say &quot;the good ones get into print,&quot; Zuda is saying &quot;the good ones get a contract.&quot; That&#039;s a shift in focus that means more attention will be paid to the money involved. And Warner actually has the resources to offer such money. Doesn&#039;t mean they will. But if they&#039;re really committed to feeding a WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE atmosphere around it all-- and distinguishing themselves from any clown with a few bucks and an Ajax programmer-- then they might.

If I worked at Warner today, I&#039;d be watching conversations like this one, taking notes and taking meetings, determining how much money the WB would need to commit to make that &quot;digital slush pile&quot; designation go away forever.   I mean, I certainly would have put specific compensation for freelancers into the press release if I thought it was attractive, and &lt;i&gt;if I knew what it was.&lt;/i&gt;

Gary, your essay goes off the rails when you try to define what an &quot;Aquaman-sized hit&quot; is, and how many there have been in the last thirty years. Those are murky waters you&#039;re wading into. And there are motives behind Zuda you haven&#039;t covered, such as &quot;getting into this Web 2.0 thingamazoo that&#039;s making the kids all jitterbuggy with their citizen journo and their iWalkmans.&quot;

But the above are quibbles. Your main points, that Warner and not DC is behind this, and that it has its eye on a bigger prize, are well argued, and well taken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are reasons to be &#8220;wait and see&#8221; about the compensation. Unlike Platinum or Tokyopop, Zuda doesn&#8217;t say &#8220;the good ones get into print,&#8221; Zuda is saying &#8220;the good ones get a contract.&#8221; That&#8217;s a shift in focus that means more attention will be paid to the money involved. And Warner actually has the resources to offer such money. Doesn&#8217;t mean they will. But if they&#8217;re really committed to feeding a WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE atmosphere around it all&#8211; and distinguishing themselves from any clown with a few bucks and an Ajax programmer&#8211; then they might.</p>
<p>If I worked at Warner today, I&#8217;d be watching conversations like this one, taking notes and taking meetings, determining how much money the WB would need to commit to make that &#8220;digital slush pile&#8221; designation go away forever.   I mean, I certainly would have put specific compensation for freelancers into the press release if I thought it was attractive, and <i>if I knew what it was.</i></p>
<p>Gary, your essay goes off the rails when you try to define what an &#8220;Aquaman-sized hit&#8221; is, and how many there have been in the last thirty years. Those are murky waters you&#8217;re wading into. And there are motives behind Zuda you haven&#8217;t covered, such as &#8220;getting into this Web 2.0 thingamazoo that&#8217;s making the kids all jitterbuggy with their citizen journo and their iWalkmans.&#8221;</p>
<p>But the above are quibbles. Your main points, that Warner and not DC is behind this, and that it has its eye on a bigger prize, are well argued, and well taken.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Kellett</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104638</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Kellett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104638</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be as pleasantly surprised as the next guy if this contract flows forth with liquid cash.  It would be the triumph of hope over experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll be as pleasantly surprised as the next guy if this contract flows forth with liquid cash.  It would be the triumph of hope over experience.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104636</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104636</guid>
		<description>Uhhh... there are a lot of negatives in my post, so I&#039;m confused as to what it says now, too. But the point was, all this endless complaining about rights IS bullshit. Nobody knows what contracts they&#039;re offering, and people are bitching about them already anyway.

The thing people keep ignoring is that DC publishes A LOT of creator-owned books, not just company-owned books. DC definitely gets a cut of the profits from creator-owned books like DMZ and Transmet and whatever, and they deserve a cut, because it&#039;s their marketing budgets that get those books on so many bookshelves, and it&#039;s presumably their marketing budget that will get Zuda in front of eyes, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uhhh&#8230; there are a lot of negatives in my post, so I&#8217;m confused as to what it says now, too. But the point was, all this endless complaining about rights IS bullshit. Nobody knows what contracts they&#8217;re offering, and people are bitching about them already anyway.</p>
<p>The thing people keep ignoring is that DC publishes A LOT of creator-owned books, not just company-owned books. DC definitely gets a cut of the profits from creator-owned books like DMZ and Transmet and whatever, and they deserve a cut, because it&#8217;s their marketing budgets that get those books on so many bookshelves, and it&#8217;s presumably their marketing budget that will get Zuda in front of eyes, too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104624</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Tyrrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104624</guid>
		<description>Gordon&#039;s got an excellent point (although I think that what he wrote is the opposite of what he meant): nobody&#039;s seen the contracts yet, so we&#039;re all engaged in speculation. I&#039;m prepared to eat my words and take it all back come October if the situation warrants.

But full of shit? Consider this line from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://zudacomics.com/?action=press_release&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;press release&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;... said Paul Levitz, DC Comics President &amp; Publisher. &quot;We want  ... for the creators to share in the profits their creations can generate.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sounds generous. But it&#039;s parsed in terms of what DC/Zuda will &lt;em&gt;grant&lt;/em&gt; to creators, instead of what a creator &lt;em&gt;gives up&lt;/em&gt; (which, since DC/Zuda are allowing the creator a &lt;em&gt;share&lt;/em&gt; of the profits, would be ownership of the creation; if this were not the case, DC/Zuda would not logically be in a position to &lt;em&gt;share&lt;/em&gt; &quot;any&quot; profits). If I were to create a year&#039;s worth of webcomics (as per the press release), I wouldn&#039;t want to &lt;em&gt;share&lt;/em&gt; the profits of my creation, I&#039;d want (and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s unreasonable) all of them. 

What DC/Zuda bring to the table, and what they expect to get out of it are still to be quantified. But it&#039;s up to them to justify their worth and the costs to the creators, and every creator is right in the meantime to be skeptical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon&#8217;s got an excellent point (although I think that what he wrote is the opposite of what he meant): nobody&#8217;s seen the contracts yet, so we&#8217;re all engaged in speculation. I&#8217;m prepared to eat my words and take it all back come October if the situation warrants.</p>
<p>But full of shit? Consider this line from the <a href="http://zudacomics.com/?action=press_release" rel="nofollow">press release</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; said Paul Levitz, DC Comics President &#038; Publisher. &#8220;We want  &#8230; for the creators to share in the profits their creations can generate.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Sounds generous. But it&#8217;s parsed in terms of what DC/Zuda will <em>grant</em> to creators, instead of what a creator <em>gives up</em> (which, since DC/Zuda are allowing the creator a <em>share</em> of the profits, would be ownership of the creation; if this were not the case, DC/Zuda would not logically be in a position to <em>share</em> &#8220;any&#8221; profits). If I were to create a year&#8217;s worth of webcomics (as per the press release), I wouldn&#8217;t want to <em>share</em> the profits of my creation, I&#8217;d want (and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s unreasonable) all of them. </p>
<p>What DC/Zuda bring to the table, and what they expect to get out of it are still to be quantified. But it&#8217;s up to them to justify their worth and the costs to the creators, and every creator is right in the meantime to be skeptical.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-104611</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/07/10/old-mcdonald-had-a-farm-drift-net-strip-mine-online-talent-search-competition/#comment-104611</guid>
		<description>Considering no one -- not one single person, because they don&#039;t exist yet -- has seen DC Comics&#039; contracts regarding this, I think nobody -- including Dave Kellett -- who says word one about this at this point is utterly and completely full of shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering no one &#8212; not one single person, because they don&#8217;t exist yet &#8212; has seen DC Comics&#8217; contracts regarding this, I think nobody &#8212; including Dave Kellett &#8212; who says word one about this at this point is utterly and completely full of shit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
