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	<title>Comments on: Hmmm &#8230; Very Hmmm</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/</link>
	<description>the webcomics blog about webcomics</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Joey Manley</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-125072</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey Manley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-125072</guid>
		<description>Paul Levitz has blue hair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Levitz has blue hair.</p>
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		<title>By: BeeBot</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124165</link>
		<dc:creator>BeeBot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124165</guid>
		<description>OK, a part-time business manager type (for those that aren't interested in doing it themselves) An agent that handles the promotion of your comics for a percent. So you combine a comics hosting site (like DrunkDuck or ComicGenesis) with a manager that will promote you. Is that the package we are looking for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, a part-time business manager type (for those that aren&#8217;t interested in doing it themselves) An agent that handles the promotion of your comics for a percent. So you combine a comics hosting site (like DrunkDuck or ComicGenesis) with a manager that will promote you. Is that the package we are looking for?</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Tyrrell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124119</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Tyrrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124119</guid>
		<description>Really not trying to crap on you, NRTCC, and art history isn't my strong suit, but I can't really think of any non-jerk art patrons from the period when the patronage model was in full swing.

Also, what I had in mind (and this is very sketchy so far) was not to have a creator dependent on a patron, but to pay somebody to perform certain tasks for them. As DJ pointed out, creators &lt;em&gt;should&lt;/em&gt; learn about the business end of the bid'ness ... but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't take advantage of specialists with certain skills. 

If you run a business, should &lt;em&gt;should&lt;/em&gt; have a lawyer and an accountant; it's not a stretch to have (perhaps part-time) a business-manager type if you don't have the skill or time to handle that end of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really not trying to crap on you, NRTCC, and art history isn&#8217;t my strong suit, but I can&#8217;t really think of any non-jerk art patrons from the period when the patronage model was in full swing.</p>
<p>Also, what I had in mind (and this is very sketchy so far) was not to have a creator dependent on a patron, but to pay somebody to perform certain tasks for them. As DJ pointed out, creators <em>should</em> learn about the business end of the bid&#8217;ness &#8230; but that doesn&#8217;t mean that they shouldn&#8217;t take advantage of specialists with certain skills. </p>
<p>If you run a business, should <em>should</em> have a lawyer and an accountant; it&#8217;s not a stretch to have (perhaps part-time) a business-manager type if you don&#8217;t have the skill or time to handle that end of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Really the Comics Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124111</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Really the Comics Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124111</guid>
		<description>I meant &lt;i&gt;enlightened patrons&lt;/i&gt;, christ. Obviously I'm not talking about jerks who want complete creative control. Those would be called "proxy artists", I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant <i>enlightened patrons</i>, christ. Obviously I&#8217;m not talking about jerks who want complete creative control. Those would be called &#8220;proxy artists&#8221;, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124082</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124082</guid>
		<description>Webcomics aren't much different than any "indie" print comics at the moment. The creators are expected to do the bulk of the promotion. Image might get you a mention in Previews but as creator you have to knock on retailer's doors to get them to order it. Unless you are working for hire it's up to you, the creator, to make sure people know about it. But, like Levitz said, not everyone wants to deal with it themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Webcomics aren&#8217;t much different than any &#8220;indie&#8221; print comics at the moment. The creators are expected to do the bulk of the promotion. Image might get you a mention in Previews but as creator you have to knock on retailer&#8217;s doors to get them to order it. Unless you are working for hire it&#8217;s up to you, the creator, to make sure people know about it. But, like Levitz said, not everyone wants to deal with it themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: DJ Coffman</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124032</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Coffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124032</guid>
		<description>We don't need a turnkey service paying like "auto-Khoos" or anything like that. I can just imagine a bunch of wannabes thinking-- DAMN! I can be a business consultant for webcomics! -- It's not as easy as that.

It's imperative that ALL cartoonists learn to be good businessmen and think outside of the boxes more. I'd like to suggest to anyone, reading minds like Seth Godin, Hugh Mcleod, start thinking like those guys and  you'll be well on your way. 

I highly suggest "Small is the new Big" by Seth Godin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t need a turnkey service paying like &#8220;auto-Khoos&#8221; or anything like that. I can just imagine a bunch of wannabes thinking&#8211; DAMN! I can be a business consultant for webcomics! &#8212; It&#8217;s not as easy as that.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s imperative that ALL cartoonists learn to be good businessmen and think outside of the boxes more. I&#8217;d like to suggest to anyone, reading minds like Seth Godin, Hugh Mcleod, start thinking like those guys and  you&#8217;ll be well on your way. </p>
<p>I highly suggest &#8220;Small is the new Big&#8221; by Seth Godin.</p>
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		<title>By: XEREXES</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124029</link>
		<dc:creator>XEREXES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124029</guid>
		<description>The Khoo approach is really the superstar model.  Khoo saw that Penny Arcade could become really big and he helped guide it there.  Rememeber PA has a staff of 10 now - it more than spits out enough revenue for Khoo to make a living at just it.

That's just not going to be a model for the vast majority of good webcomics (let's just put aside not-good webcomics because no one's going to make money at that) in that same way that most book authors are musicians/bands don't do that.  But most published authors and musicians do get agents who provide services to a stable of clients.  That kind of approach could work for a lot of webcomic creators.

The services such a webcomics-agent would provide may not be all that different than things like Zuda but the perception (and probably the reality) would be different. There's a trust issue with entities like Zuda (and other publisher-back arrangements) that wouldn't be there with something like CAA for webcomics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Khoo approach is really the superstar model.  Khoo saw that Penny Arcade could become really big and he helped guide it there.  Rememeber PA has a staff of 10 now - it more than spits out enough revenue for Khoo to make a living at just it.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just not going to be a model for the vast majority of good webcomics (let&#8217;s just put aside not-good webcomics because no one&#8217;s going to make money at that) in that same way that most book authors are musicians/bands don&#8217;t do that.  But most published authors and musicians do get agents who provide services to a stable of clients.  That kind of approach could work for a lot of webcomic creators.</p>
<p>The services such a webcomics-agent would provide may not be all that different than things like Zuda but the perception (and probably the reality) would be different. There&#8217;s a trust issue with entities like Zuda (and other publisher-back arrangements) that wouldn&#8217;t be there with something like CAA for webcomics.</p>
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		<title>By: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sept. 5, 2007: Hell, I&#8217;ll volunteer to kill Northstar myself</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124016</link>
		<dc:creator>Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sept. 5, 2007: Hell, I&#8217;ll volunteer to kill Northstar myself</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-124016</guid>
		<description>[...] Gary Tyrrell dissects DC Comics publisher Paul Levitz&#8217; comments on webcomics from yesterday&#8217;s ICv2 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gary Tyrrell dissects DC Comics publisher Paul Levitz&#8217; comments on webcomics from yesterday&#8217;s ICv2 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike L</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-123821</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 00:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-123821</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But I am saying that the more — let’s call them agendas — come into play from people who aren’t the possessor of the creative vision but retain an ownership stake, the greater the — let’s call it dilutive — effect it will have on the creation.&lt;/i&gt;

This is the most telling part of your observations to me. Not only because the publisher is fronting the money and therefore feels a need (and a reasonable one) that their money is being well spent, but because in this case the publisher is opting to keep ahold of said creation once the ties to the creator are severed. And DC does not exactly have a clean record where this kind of thing is concerned.

I think also what's hardest here is that many art schools fail to teach anything about business either in promotion or pricing or really in any aspect and learning something about any of it when one is just happily making a web comic seems really daunting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But I am saying that the more — let’s call them agendas — come into play from people who aren’t the possessor of the creative vision but retain an ownership stake, the greater the — let’s call it dilutive — effect it will have on the creation.</i></p>
<p>This is the most telling part of your observations to me. Not only because the publisher is fronting the money and therefore feels a need (and a reasonable one) that their money is being well spent, but because in this case the publisher is opting to keep ahold of said creation once the ties to the creator are severed. And DC does not exactly have a clean record where this kind of thing is concerned.</p>
<p>I think also what&#8217;s hardest here is that many art schools fail to teach anything about business either in promotion or pricing or really in any aspect and learning something about any of it when one is just happily making a web comic seems really daunting.</p>
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		<title>By: T Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-123770</link>
		<dc:creator>T Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/09/04/hmmm-very-hmmm/#comment-123770</guid>
		<description>Robert Khoo handles promotion. If we could clone Robert Khoo, I'd buy two. Of course there is demand for Khoos. But is there supply?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Khoo handles promotion. If we could clone Robert Khoo, I&#8217;d buy two. Of course there is demand for Khoos. But is there supply?</p>
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