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	<title>Comments on: On The Subject Of Owls. Really.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/</link>
	<description>the webcomics blog about webcomics</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jon Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-141009</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-141009</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Altering an image doesn’t nullify the copyright. That’d be like saying that using samples from someone else’s music, and then putting them through a distortion filter, makes them ok to use.&lt;/i&gt;

Ninja-Bot, you're mistaken, transforming an original work into something new is allowed under fair use in many instances. Are you from 1970, perhaps? I know hip-hop was not around then, you may not be aware of it.

Here's a small bit that explains transformative use, I snagged it from &lt;a href="http://www.copyright.iupui.edu/highered.htm" rel="nofollow"&gt;here:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Courts also favor uses that are "transformative," or that are not mere reproductions. Fair use is more likely when the copyrighted work is "transformed" into something new or of new utility, such as quotations incorporated into a paper, and perhaps pieces of a work mixed into a multimedia product for your own teaching needs or included in commentary or criticism of the original.&lt;/i&gt;

If you have some reason to believe that what you said was true, please, back it up with some actual law? I would love to be educated if I am mistaken about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Altering an image doesn’t nullify the copyright. That’d be like saying that using samples from someone else’s music, and then putting them through a distortion filter, makes them ok to use.</i></p>
<p>Ninja-Bot, you&#8217;re mistaken, transforming an original work into something new is allowed under fair use in many instances. Are you from 1970, perhaps? I know hip-hop was not around then, you may not be aware of it.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a small bit that explains transformative use, I snagged it from <a href="http://www.copyright.iupui.edu/highered.htm" rel="nofollow">here:</a></p>
<p><i>Courts also favor uses that are &#8220;transformative,&#8221; or that are not mere reproductions. Fair use is more likely when the copyrighted work is &#8220;transformed&#8221; into something new or of new utility, such as quotations incorporated into a paper, and perhaps pieces of a work mixed into a multimedia product for your own teaching needs or included in commentary or criticism of the original.</i></p>
<p>If you have some reason to believe that what you said was true, please, back it up with some actual law? I would love to be educated if I am mistaken about this.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140974</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140974</guid>
		<description>I think Rowland is definitely on safe ground legally, but as Sohmer indicated, that's not the whole of the issue here. As creators, we all guard our intellectual property very carefully, legality be damned. Shouldn't we afford this "creator" the same right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Rowland is definitely on safe ground legally, but as Sohmer indicated, that&#8217;s not the whole of the issue here. As creators, we all guard our intellectual property very carefully, legality be damned. Shouldn&#8217;t we afford this &#8220;creator&#8221; the same right?</p>
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		<title>By: iamnotachicken</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140911</link>
		<dc:creator>iamnotachicken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140911</guid>
		<description>(My comment was directed at Androo, just in case anyone was confused).

Ninja-Bot, there is a difference between simply altering an image, and redrawing a small part of it (which is what I'm assuming Rowland did).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(My comment was directed at Androo, just in case anyone was confused).</p>
<p>Ninja-Bot, there is a difference between simply altering an image, and redrawing a small part of it (which is what I&#8217;m assuming Rowland did).</p>
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		<title>By: iamnotachicken</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140909</link>
		<dc:creator>iamnotachicken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140909</guid>
		<description>That's just what we shouldn't be paying attention too. It shouldn't matter whether it's a corporation or a struggling artist, or a webcomicker we love, no one should get away with theft. The case needs to be judged without regards to how we otherwise feel about the parties. 

Honestly though, everything I've learned about appropriation and so on makes me think Jeff is on pretty safe ground. It's a changed image, being a drawing, and it could be easily construed as a parody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s just what we shouldn&#8217;t be paying attention too. It shouldn&#8217;t matter whether it&#8217;s a corporation or a struggling artist, or a webcomicker we love, no one should get away with theft. The case needs to be judged without regards to how we otherwise feel about the parties. </p>
<p>Honestly though, everything I&#8217;ve learned about appropriation and so on makes me think Jeff is on pretty safe ground. It&#8217;s a changed image, being a drawing, and it could be easily construed as a parody.</p>
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		<title>By: Ninja-Bot</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140908</link>
		<dc:creator>Ninja-Bot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140908</guid>
		<description>Altering an image doesn't nullify the copyright. That'd be like saying that using samples from someone else's music, and then putting them through a distortion filter, makes them ok to use.

That, my good friend, would be total bullshit. At least Rowland's being relatively big on the matter, admitting wrong about something that almost no one would've thought twice about from the start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Altering an image doesn&#8217;t nullify the copyright. That&#8217;d be like saying that using samples from someone else&#8217;s music, and then putting them through a distortion filter, makes them ok to use.</p>
<p>That, my good friend, would be total bullshit. At least Rowland&#8217;s being relatively big on the matter, admitting wrong about something that almost no one would&#8217;ve thought twice about from the start.</p>
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		<title>By: Androo Gee</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140806</link>
		<dc:creator>Androo Gee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140806</guid>
		<description>Dear Jon Rosenberg:

Congratulations on owning that guy.  I would point and laugh at him but this is the internet and I really don't know how to effectively do that.  I don't know how to convey to him the amount of shame he should be feeling without making eye contact and then finding myself awkwardly unable to meet his gaze, thereby expressing that his shame has in fact passed on like a terrible virus to all people around him.

Also, in regards to a much earlier comment, big corporations suck.  That is why we hate them.  Jeffrey Rowland does not suck.  In fact, he is awesome.  We do not hate him.  He is not thoughtraping poor struggling artists.  He made a mousepad.  No one is very sad about this except for one dude, and that dude is not very cool.  Therefore, we should all have cake.

CLEARLY.

Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Jon Rosenberg:</p>
<p>Congratulations on owning that guy.  I would point and laugh at him but this is the internet and I really don&#8217;t know how to effectively do that.  I don&#8217;t know how to convey to him the amount of shame he should be feeling without making eye contact and then finding myself awkwardly unable to meet his gaze, thereby expressing that his shame has in fact passed on like a terrible virus to all people around him.</p>
<p>Also, in regards to a much earlier comment, big corporations suck.  That is why we hate them.  Jeffrey Rowland does not suck.  In fact, he is awesome.  We do not hate him.  He is not thoughtraping poor struggling artists.  He made a mousepad.  No one is very sad about this except for one dude, and that dude is not very cool.  Therefore, we should all have cake.</p>
<p>CLEARLY.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: rstevens</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140618</link>
		<dc:creator>rstevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140618</guid>
		<description>If it's the guy's image and it was not sufficiently altered, there's a case there. Doesn't matter who we like or not, it's the same as publishing a book full of Google image search photos or a comic comprised of nothing but Megaman sprites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s the guy&#8217;s image and it was not sufficiently altered, there&#8217;s a case there. Doesn&#8217;t matter who we like or not, it&#8217;s the same as publishing a book full of Google image search photos or a comic comprised of nothing but Megaman sprites.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140520</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140520</guid>
		<description>William, I think you may not be as familiar with the concept of fair use as you think you are.

Or maybe you’ve overlooked the definition in your rush to condemn a Dumbrella member! I know that you are a bitter, lonely, jealous man isolated in a far-away country but even you must recognize that the work is a) transformative, in that it does not use the original photograph, b) passes the amount and substantiality test, int hat it only resembles a portion of the original photograph, and does not use it in its entirety, and c)has zero effect on the value of the original work. In addition jeff’s work could easily be considered parody.

Basically this would be up to a judge to decide, it is not as clear cut as you make it to be and I personally think Jeff is within his rights here.

I have learned that anything you say about Dumbrella should not be taken seriously either. You are a troll who would do better to spend time working on your comics than attacking your fellow cartoonists on the internet. I dare you to come and meet any of the people you talk trash about at a convention and spend five minutes talking with them and see if your perspective is not changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, I think you may not be as familiar with the concept of fair use as you think you are.</p>
<p>Or maybe you’ve overlooked the definition in your rush to condemn a Dumbrella member! I know that you are a bitter, lonely, jealous man isolated in a far-away country but even you must recognize that the work is a) transformative, in that it does not use the original photograph, b) passes the amount and substantiality test, int hat it only resembles a portion of the original photograph, and does not use it in its entirety, and c)has zero effect on the value of the original work. In addition jeff’s work could easily be considered parody.</p>
<p>Basically this would be up to a judge to decide, it is not as clear cut as you make it to be and I personally think Jeff is within his rights here.</p>
<p>I have learned that anything you say about Dumbrella should not be taken seriously either. You are a troll who would do better to spend time working on your comics than attacking your fellow cartoonists on the internet. I dare you to come and meet any of the people you talk trash about at a convention and spend five minutes talking with them and see if your perspective is not changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Korwinga</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140157</link>
		<dc:creator>Korwinga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140157</guid>
		<description>likewise, just because it looks like it's a snowy owl, doesn't make it the "Orly owl." if you go to http://wigu.livejournal.com/125035.html there's alot of really good points brought up by the posters there. parody is allowed under the fair use law. heck, the image of the owl on the mouse pad doesn't even say O Rly? so how is that ripping off the original photographer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>likewise, just because it looks like it&#8217;s a snowy owl, doesn&#8217;t make it the &#8220;Orly owl.&#8221; if you go to <a href="http://wigu.livejournal.com/125035.html" rel="nofollow">http://wigu.livejournal.com/125035.html</a> there&#8217;s alot of really good points brought up by the posters there. parody is allowed under the fair use law. heck, the image of the owl on the mouse pad doesn&#8217;t even say O Rly? so how is that ripping off the original photographer?</p>
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		<title>By: jeff lowrey</title>
		<link>http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140154</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff lowrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fleen.com/archives/2007/10/19/on-the-subject-of-owls-really/#comment-140154</guid>
		<description>Makes me want to buy rights to the kitten.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes me want to buy rights to the kitten.</p>
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